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bankroll management suggestions

Post by Guest on Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:31 pm

Bankroll management seems to be an issue a lot of people struggle with and want to know more about. The thing is, it's easy to learn the rules of bankroll management, but it's hard to have the discipline to stay within the rules. So I'm going to lay out my simple rules for bankroll management for micro-stakes players, and I promise if you follow these rules you should never have to deposit money again! The rules are different for those who like cash games and those who play tournaments. Both sets of rules are easy to follow and are not too strict or conservative. Some will even say they are not conservative enough! Also, as you move up in stakes you will likely find a level of play where you really struggle or where the play just gets much better. At those points I would highly recommend tightening your bankroll requirements even further to give yourself a little breathing room.

For cash game players, the minimum you should have in your bankroll is 20 buy-ins for the level you want to play. If you get to 15 buy-ins or less, you need to move back down to the previous level until you get back over 100 buy-ins. One buy-in is considered 100 big blinds. For instance, at .01/.02, a buy-in is $2 (100 x .02 = $2) and that is why .01/.02 is called $2NL. So, for a specific example, let's say you deposit $50 and plan to use good bankroll management, moving up and moving down as needed. You must then start out playing $2NL until you can work your way up to $100. When you get to $100 you can then start playing $5NL. If things aren't going well at $5NL and your bankroll gets back down to $75 (15 buy-ins), then you must drop back down to $2NL and grind your way back up. Moving back down is one of the hardest things to do, but for proper bankroll management it's probably the most important thing. Just remember that even the best players need to move down occasionally and the only people that never move down are the ones that eventually go broke.

A lot of people start their poker careers playing Sit & Go tournaments (SNG). Most people have seen poker tournaments on television so that is where they start. I also think there is a misconception that SNGs are an easy way to grind up a bankroll. In fact, tournaments in general have more variance then cash games. Not that SNGs aren't a good option for the micro player, but with the variance in mind, you should have a larger bankroll to absorb the swings. I think a minimum of 40 buy-ins is sufficient, so if you start with $50 again, you should be playing $1 buy-in SNGs until you get up to at least $80, then move up to the $2 tournies. Again, be sure to move back down if you are having trouble, but definitely if you get down to 30 buy-ins.

Multi-table tournaments (MTTs) are going to be the hardest games to grind a bankroll with for a couple of reasons. First, the variance can be brutal, often going a very long time between big cashes. Second, there just aren't that many MTTs at the micro level, so trying to grind up with a small bankroll can seem impossible. However, there are options. There are often satellite tournaments that the micro player can enter with very low buy-ins. These will pay out tournament tickets instead of cash, but the tickets can be just as good as a big cash score. One word of caution if you choose to play satellites though. You will sometimes be tempted to use your ticket to play in the big tournament. Proper bankroll management says no! Take the tournament money and use it to play more games within your bankroll.

Another tournament topic to touch on is re-buy tournaments. Keep in mind that you should price in a minimum of 1 re-buy and 1 add-on so the actual buy-in should be multiplied by 3. For instance, to play the $3 re-buy on stars you should have a minimum $900 bankroll ($3 x 3 x 100 = $900). In reality you will often use more than 3x your buy-in so, again, this is a minimum.

Proper bankroll management doesn't have to be difficult or constrict your growth as a poker player. In fact, it will surely only help your game as you grind from one level to the next. All of these guidelines should be seen as minimums really, although I think they're adequate for most micro-stakes players. However, once you start getting to more aggressive games and you begin to lose your edge, you should really become more conservative with your bankroll management. Although, by the time you get to those games, bankroll management will probably seem like second nature and you will likely naturally get tighter with your roll.

Three final things to keep in mind: don't act on the temptation to move up too soon, don't worry about what level other people are playing, and remember there's no shame in moving down.

just a little guide for some one to use its not gospel but it has been useful for me .

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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by illphillllllll on Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:38 pm

great post trucker, hope all of our members get the chance to read it. when i first started playing i was able to build a couple of nice rolls only to give it back. if you are not using some type of bankroll management guideline you are not a poker player, you are a gambler. it might not be fun slowly grinding your bankroll up but it sure beats starting over again and again. i take pride in seeing my rolls continue to blossom and know that my long term goals will eventually be achieved. nobody gets rich quick, its poker not a movie.
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Re "Bankroll Management"

Post by k9ofspades on Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:29 pm

Ty Trucker a great post.

I didn't know you could cash in a satellite (is that the rt term). I've only played one and got knocked out 1 before the bubble, but that makes them more appealing. Is it difficult to arrange?

Thanks again Guy
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Re "Bankroll Management"

Post by jimbeam77 on Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:40 pm

Wow i read all that now my eyes hurt,i should try that sumtime. but when i win freerolls i usually go to blackjack or slots, and lose it all,so i must be a gambler not a poker player. Very Happy
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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by Guest on Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:44 pm

k9ofspades wrote:Ty Trucker a great post.

I didn't know you could cash in a satellite (is that the rt term). I've only played one and got knocked out 1 before the bubble, but that makes them more appealing. Is it difficult to arrange?

Thanks again Guy


actually i think that was like full tilts tourney dollars which are just like cash [hmm sounds like yogi berra in the aflac commercial ] lol and then there are some sites that dont let u turn ur ticket into cash those u have to play . think the main point is u have to have some formula of br management to stay ahead of blowing all your money at the tables or as jim says go to the slots lol.

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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by jimbeam77 on Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:39 pm

Well on the new site i am playing on,Im not going to play blackjack or slots. I would really like someone to tell me what i should play on there so for once i can gain money, not lose it. any Input would help!!! Very Happy bounce i got $29.18 what to play?? I dont know.
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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by The Big Donk on Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:31 pm

jimbeam77 wrote:Well on the new site i am playing on,Im not going to play blackjack or slots. I would really like someone to tell me what i should play on there so for once i can gain money, not lose it. any Input would help!!! Very Happy bounce i got $29.18 what to play?? I dont know.

With that bankroll I would play:

Any micro-stakes ring game and buy in for either the minimum amount or for $1.45, whichever is the smallest allowed. I would then leave the game if my stack reached $2.91 before the blinds got around to me again.

Any SNG for $1.45 buy-in or lower.

Any MTT for a $1 buy-in or lower.

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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by Not Like Me on Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:25 pm

The Big Donk wrote:
jimbeam77 wrote:Well on the new site i am playing on,Im not going to play blackjack or slots. I would really like someone to tell me what i should play on there so for once i can gain money, not lose it. any Input would help!!! Very Happy bounce i got $29.18 what to play?? I dont know.

With that bankroll I would play:

Any micro-stakes ring game and buy in for either the minimum amount or for $1.45, whichever is the smallest allowed. I would then leave the game if my stack reached $2.91 before the blinds got around to me again.

Any SNG for $1.45 buy-in or lower.

Any MTT for a $1 buy-in or lower.


TBD, I recall reading a post by yourself that explained why you would leave the table after achieving a certain amount of money. Can you direct me to the thread it was posted in? I can't remember why you choose to get up at that point, but I'm certain there's an excellent reason for it.
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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by jimbeam77 on Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:52 pm

OK,Thanks TBD,Ill try that 2 nite Very Happy
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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by jimbeam77 on Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:26 pm

Any other ideas? i tried that now my br is down to $26.08 Evil or Very Mad
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just hang with it

Post by chefjimmy on Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:02 am

small money ring games and playing only the top 10 hands..its boring but you,ll see an increase,also stay away from tables with other ss players..its counter productive
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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by slyone66 on Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:10 am

another great post trucker, and my eyes are also burning.lol, totally agree with everything you about buy ins and your limits. i play alot of small tables and don t really get into the large cash tables. i do play alot of sit-n-gos though and they keep my bankrolls going.(not as high as i would like though) but its money in the bank, sooner or later i'll get that big hit i've been trying for. i feel it coming soon. great post trucker
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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by Guest on Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:18 pm

all the burning eyes lol by some eye drops and u just got to keep grinding the little tables we would all like to hit the big one but i think it is like all things got to put the effort n time to succeed .

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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by jimbeam77 on Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:39 pm

OK now what should i do i strayed from proper bankroll management i put $10 on cash table and lost it with a good hand of course.also playing $2 sng and $2tournys r&a now im down to $10.64 Sad now what? i f-ed up.
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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by The Big Donk on Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:15 pm

Not Like Me wrote:
The Big Donk wrote:
jimbeam77 wrote:Well on the new site i am playing on,Im not going to play blackjack or slots. I would really like someone to tell me what i should play on there so for once i can gain money, not lose it. any Input would help!!! Very Happy bounce i got $29.18 what to play?? I dont know.

With that bankroll I would play:

Any micro-stakes ring game and buy in for either the minimum amount or for $1.45, whichever is the smallest allowed. I would then leave the game if my stack reached $2.91 before the blinds got around to me again.

Any SNG for $1.45 buy-in or lower.

Any MTT for a $1 buy-in or lower.


TBD, I recall reading a post by yourself that explained why you would leave the table after achieving a certain amount of money. Can you direct me to the thread it was posted in? I can't remember why you choose to get up at that point, but I'm certain there's an excellent reason for it.

You might be thinking of this post in the $10K Challenge thread. Don't think I went much into the "why" of it though. The BRM strategy I use is adopted from the same strategy Chris Ferguson uses.

The why of it for me is that bankroll management is really a double-edged strategy. The buy-in limits are set to minimize losses. But very few poker players play to lose their money as slowly as possible. Most of us play to win, to make money, to build our bankroll upward. The "walk away a winner" point is the other edge of that strategy, design to keep our bankrolls moving upward when the poker gods smile upon us.

The way that it's set up is to leave a game when your chipstack represents 10% of your current bankroll. For those times when you're all business and just there to make money, you would bring 5% of your bankroll to the table and walk away when you it that 10 percent marker.

Of course sometimes we just want to play poker for fun. If you're looking to stick around the table for a long period of time, step down in stakes a couple of levels. That way you can bring just a fraction of that 5% to the table. Then you would have to 5, 10, 20+ times your chipstack before hitting that 10% marker and being forced to leave, which leaves the likelihood of being forced out of a game due to the BRM strategy rules super slim.

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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by The Big Donk on Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:30 pm

jimbeam77 wrote:OK now what should i do i strayed from proper bankroll management i put $10 on cash table and lost it with a good hand of course.also playing $2 sng and $2tournys r&a now im down to $10.64 Sad now what? i f-ed up.

Let's address the f-ed up issue 1st. As long as you're feeling like that, step away from the tables. Change your perspective. Mentally reset your bankroll to $0.00. Now go through that long and strenuous grind of cashing in enough freerolls to win enough to bring to a table. Go through the ups and downs, the back to freerolling's again and again, the ups and downs at the tables again, until you finally get that $0.00 starting roll all the way up to $10.64.

Now you've finally got a decent roll to begin an upward grind with. Wait until you feel good with your current bankroll, and any feelings of tilt are only blurry memories. Return to the tables, and try again at applying a BRM strategy that works for you. My strategy would be to bring the following maximum amounts as described below:

Ring games: $0.53 or the absolute minimum buy-in in the smallest stakes game.
SNGs: $0.53 or the absolute smallest buy-in.
MTTs: $0.21 or $1, whichever is the smallest you can get in for.

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RE:BANKROLL MANAGEMENT

Post by jimbeam77 on Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:52 pm

The Big Donk wrote:
jimbeam77 wrote:OK now what should i do i strayed from proper bankroll management i put $10 on cash table and lost it with a good hand of course.also playing $2 sng and $2tournys r&a now im down to $10.64 Sad now what? i f-ed up.

Let's address the f-ed up issue 1st. As long as you're feeling like that, step away from the tables. Change your perspective. Mentally reset your bankroll to $0.00. Now go through that long and strenuous grind of cashing in enough freerolls to win enough to bring to a table. Go through the ups and downs, the back to freerolling's again and again, the ups and downs at the tables again, until you finally get that $0.00 starting roll all the way up to $10.64.

Now you've finally got a decent roll to begin an upward grind with. Wait until you feel good with your current bankroll, and any feelings of tilt are only blurry memories. Return to the tables, and try again at applying a BRM strategy that works for you. My strategy would be to bring the following maximum amounts as described below:

Ring games: $0.53 or the absolute minimum buy-in in the smallest stakes game.
SNGs: $0.53 or the absolute smallest buy-in.
MTTs: $0.21 or $1, whichever is the smallest you can get in for.
Well TBD they dont have any freerolls on pokerworld yet but you just describe me to a tee i definatly should of got of the site totaly for the day but i didnt Evil or Very Mad well i think ill let my $10.64 sit on there for awile, thanks for the GREAT advice Very Happy
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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:53 am

jimbeam
do u have pokerstars on ur puter they have a great way to build your br the double or nothing sitn gos 10 people 5 double up so if u play tight u can make the money some of the other sites have started thier own versions of this think players only does it too i have been playing a lot of them and also been hitting the 1/2 cent ring tables on full tilt to build up my tiny br on ft and if u have a dollar the daily dollar on ft is a good one to try 10000$ gaurenteed payout goes off twice a day once at 315 pm and one later not sure of time also have a mini version 10cents at 535 gaurenteed 1000$ so theres plenty of options keep plugging u will find what u like . most of all be patient . and ps over half your br on 1 table should never put more than 20% or less in a game at any one time cause as u noticed even good hands get beat its about longevity my friend .

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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by crazee55 on Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:11 pm

Hiya Trucker Very good post.. I have had lousy bankroll management lately,and I don't think its because of the games I play in, its the way the cards are going for me. Maybe I just need to quit playing for awhile, but that is very very hard to do!! Anyway, ty for the post, great reading!

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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by jimbeam77 on Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:04 pm

Trucker i have pokerstars, but i only have .63 cents on there Evil or Very Mad
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Re "Bankroll Management"

Post by jimbeam77 on Thu May 07, 2009 8:57 pm

I got a question???? Ok i was on poerworld at .2 .4 cent table I got on the table with .80 cents i got of at $4.00 My ???? is if i get on with .80 cents when should i get off the table??? does it matter?
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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by NicolasWSOP on Sat May 09, 2009 11:15 pm

Thank you for this very useful post. I'll keep this in mind.
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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by Not Like Me on Sun May 10, 2009 9:20 am

jimbeam77 wrote:I got a question???? Ok i was on poerworld at .2 .4 cent table I got on the table with .80 cents i got of at $4.00 My ???? is if i get on with .80 cents when should i get off the table??? does it matter?

If I recall reading TBD's post correctly about bankroll management in another thread I believe he said to stand up from the table when you've accumulated 10% of your entire bankroll. For example, if you have a $20 and bought in for $0.40 at a $0.01/$0.02 ring game, you should leave the table once you have $2.
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Re: bankroll management suggestions

Post by jimbeam77 on Sun May 10, 2009 6:00 pm

Not Like Me wrote:
jimbeam77 wrote:I got a question???? Ok i was on poerworld at .2 .4 cent table I got on the table with .80 cents i got of at $4.00 My ???? is if i get on with .80 cents when should i get off the table??? does it matter?

If I recall reading TBD's post correctly about bankroll management in another thread I believe he said to stand up from the table when you've accumulated 10% of your entire bankroll. For example, if you have a $20 and bought in for $0.40 at a $0.01/$0.02 ring game, you should leave the table once you have $2.
OK sounds good to me 10% of total bankroll is what i shall stick to thanks NOT Very Happy
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