wanted to throw a question out to get everyones oppion

i would like to have ur discussion on getting advice from another tx hold em player who isnt in the gane with u or on the site where ur playing while you r in a game. Is it cheating? when your weak in your game and want some advice from someone you respect on how to improve that area is it wrong is it cheating?" just would like your discussion on this . my oppion is how do we improve if we cant learn from someone who is a little better as long as they arent in the game or even on the site you r playing on how can it be considered cheating. plz e1 respond let me know what is right or wrong. thank you all .......GOOFY

Okay... on this subject before I make my comments... let me say..I am no rules expert. Having said that......

I don't believe this is allowed. In a live game, that we have all seen, none of this in any form during a hand is allowed. I would say in my opinion that this is a violation of the rules of the game. Online, I'm sure this goes on to some degree, but it doesn't make it right. There is no way to catch this I don't believe, but to actually seek advice about the way you should play the hand while it is unfolding is not, in my opinion allowed, nor should it be ever!

As players in the family of poker, we should police ourselves and keep this game honest, whether it be playing for play money chips, a freeroll, or a real money game. I know that online playing risk the chance that things like this will happen. I believe that this borders collusion and if it isn't against the rules(which I think it is) it should be.

My opinion about this can be summed up by saying "Let your conscience be your guide"

I believe that as poker players learning the game(I think all players of all levels are constantly learning) we should constantly strive to learn and improve our game by using whatever means we decide to improve ourselves and THEN bring that new knowledge to the table and use it on our own as the game unfolds.

So goofy12u, I hope our chat and this post helps you to understand a little better about online play(live play also), and the ethics, rules,honesty and integrity of the game of poker. Online players must police themselves and forums, like this one, can hopefully bring to light any misunderstandings of when we may be crossing the line when it comes to rules, ethics and honesty of online poker.

If you have engaged in any of this in the past, we hope you have learned from this and after our chat I want you to understand that beating yourself up about this will not help you to be a better player, or a person. Forgive yourself, as you know I have forgiven you, and go on and grow from this experience and be a good ambassador of the game.

As always... good luck to you and all... and may the flops be with you!

in a word wrong!

Doing it the way you explained it Goofy I would have to agree with Datsme. BUT(there is always a but)If you want to pick up some tips from someone you think is a better player than try this.Have him play and you watch him. After a hand has been completed you could then ask ok why did you do this, or why did you do that. If you see him do something you would not normally do and want to know why you can always ask. AGAIN AFTER THE HAND IS CONPLETED. Just remember if he says these are my pocket cards what would you do? Your reply needs to be I'm not playing and I want to see what you are going to do. Could actually work the other way with you playing and him watching, but only if you talk about the hands after they are completed. No questions asked or remarks made when a hand starts till after it is completed. Then you can ask do you think I playrd that hand right or do you think I sould of played it differently. If any this actuall make sense to you: it does to me. See you on the felt.

I agree with what has been said! Technically, getting tips from someone DURING gameplay would essentially mean letting someone else play for you, which is NOT ALLOWED. Of course, how could anyone catch you? Still, NOT GOOD!

I agree that watching someone else play and then asking them why etc... is a great way to learn and many videos take this tack in teaching poker strategy. If you have it in person all the better. But of course, they would need to be playing on thier own account, as again, having someone else play on your account is against the rules on pretty much every network, I would assume.

GL on the feltzzzzzzz!

i want to thank you very much for your suggestions and your words i guess i need to find a place where i can watch and learn from him and him watch and learn what im doing wrong anybody got any suggestions on such a site would be greatly appreciated thank u all again very much.

in a word wrong!.

have to agree with dats though it did take me time to think about it. i have sat with my sister while she was starting online and did the same thing. i guess there are different stages of cheating this being the lowest stage. a good question would be if a site found out a person was giving you advice while you were playing would they ban you. i honestly don't think they would care.

I think it's a matter of personal integrity and the fine line between honest/dishonest play. I've taken the following from section four of Full Tilt Poker's "End User License Agreement":

4.3 COLLUSION.

"Collusion between players by sharing hole cards or by other methods, including but not limited to, chip dumping, talking about a hand before action is completed, or allowing multiple players to share a single account, is strictly forbidden. Full Tilt Poker reserves, in addition to other measures, the right to restrict seating and/or to prohibit Users from playing at a particular poker table or in a tournament, including restricting two or more Users from playing together at the same table or in the same tournament. Collusion may also result in the forfeiture of your entire Full Tilt Poker balance."


Vaguely limited in this sentence is the stance Full Tilt takes on players trying to take advantage of the game. I believe if two or more people are actively combining to play from one particular account than it becomes dishonest and therefore is essentially collusion. Regardless of how many occurances were noted, whether it was one hand or an entire tournament, it's still cheating if you (the player) act in a manner you normally wouldn't had you been playing on your own. It's one thing to take advice from someone on the rail in between hands - it's another to use two minds as one to compete against the rest of the (presumably) honest players.

Well in this case, it's hard to say. A lot of it is subject to vast amounts of opinion.

I think anytime you are playing in a game, where you and another player are not working together as in knowing each others cards using it as a advantage and or chip dumping is not cheating at all.

In fact I think, some poker software, sharkscope, propoker labs.com are basicly data mining programs that revels more information on players than I think is proper to have. I mean if you can't sit down at a table for 1 hour, and see what everyone is doing wrong, then you are the one making mistakes and need to move down, no datamining is really needed with hand histories and watching the way the players play at the table.

That being said, they are great programs to break down your own personal game with.

Nah not cheating I have done it with a few friends trying to learn the game, giving them advice on how they should be thinking with certain players, I still bust them out and show no mercy on the same as anyone. It's a learning process in my opinion, and with multi accounters, poker bots, and super users. Frankly at the limits you play they have bigger fish to fry.

i have to agree with dats what he said is right but if u would like to improve your game with your buddy there. just have a home game with friends and the buddy your talking about and just get him to watch u wile u play and then after the game he may be able to help u with your game and oh yeah watch him too. im not sure if this will help but i know it worked for me in some ways.


!!GOOD LUCK!!

I think what he is asking is that the person giveing advice is not in the game or even on the site/rail but at his home..... I often have friends and girlfriends over partying, watching ,cheering and throwing out their advice while I'm playing online in a game...which can be fun and a distraction and SOMETIMES I heed their advice which I do not see as collusion or cheating by a sites definition of such....

It is cheating, and it is illegal.

But I shouldn't be one to talk. lolz.

so isn t under age gambling, but people do it all the time online. so who would ever know if someone was sitting at home with you and coaching your game, absolutely nobody! is it right no, does it happen yes.

wtf if you or anyone else was good enough at tx to be coaching someone dont u suppose that they might be too busy playing their own hand so wtf matter does it anyway

Cheating >>>> Yes
Wrong >>>>> Yes

If it feels wrong or if you even question it chances are it's wrong.
That being said great question.

Now if you want to learn flip side it.
Nothing wrong with watching sided by side an experienced player.
Learing his moves and the reasoning behind them.
The only real difference is that he is profiting from his skills not you.

Nothing wrong with that.